SED up close and personal
The SED display sets were 32-inches showing a 720p pic, but the production units later this year will be 55-inches in full 1080p. Even with the the 720p source material during the 12-minute presentation, the SED picture rivaled, or even exceeded some of the 1080p displays we scanned this week. The demo highlighted features like brightness, contrast, depth and color. Probably the best way to describe something this visual is to think back to when you first saw HDTV. Remember the impact it had on you and the jump you saw in picture quality? That's what SED feels like; it's like making the jump from SDTV to HDTV all over again. It's that good.
Toshiba and Canon clearly demonstrated that you could perceive an object's texture; if we could use the word "tactile" to describe the view, we would. Oh heck, we just did. Items like strawberries, flowers, grass and ribbons made you believe that they were really there and that you could actually reach out and feel the texture. Clearly, the experience is difficult to describe. As far as contrast, there were dozens of examples that would test even the current CRTs on the market. Various scenes with shadows demonstrated that details were not lost in the darker areas.
Like many technologies of near-distant future, details we'd love to have are out of focus. We don't know the pricing yet, but we do know that SED is one of the most exciting display technologies that we've seen in some time. As the new year unfolds, we're looking for additional opps to get some good eyeball scans on these. Most importantly: if the pic was that good with a 720p format, we simply can't wait to see a signal with 1,080 lines. Hm, "PlayStation 3 on my SED" has a nice sound to it, no?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Borat @ Jan 8th 2006 2:05PM
Now I'm confused. I was planning on getting a 50-inch plasma later in the year, but I guess it cant compare to a SED. Wonder what the pricing will be though.
nublet @ Jan 8th 2006 2:14PM
Is this coming out this year? Around what time? I was thinking about saving for one of those newly announced 1080p Samsung DLP's...but these seem to blow them away.
Brad Johnson @ Jan 8th 2006 2:19PM
What kind of depth are we looking at here, similar to plasma/lcd, DLP or CRT?
Thanks for the intel. Very exciting technology that I didn't get a chance to see at last years show and I wasn't able to make it this year. Bravo.
Matt @ Jan 8th 2006 2:25PM
I hate to link to IGN because they suck compared to Engadget but their article on SED is worth a read. They are similarly floored by the technology and offered this tasty tid-bit at the end of the article:
"Unfortunately, the electronics maker was hush-hush on pricing for SEDs and would not even venture to give us a ballpark figure for these televisions. That noted, previous reports on the technology state that it can be mass-produced on a cheaper scale than competing plasma or LCD televisions."
DROOL... read the whole thing here if you want.
Dean Heistad @ Jan 8th 2006 2:25PM
I think the 55" SED will be quite expensive. If it's less than $10k at launch "sometime in 2006" - I'd be very surprised.
I saw the SED this morning, and distinctly noticed a flicker reminiscent of CRT's at 60hz or computer monitors (crt-based) with a refresh rate of 60hz. I asked the people at Toshiba, but their "experts" weren't there.
It certainly was impressive, but I think the big deal for consumers will be the lower power consumption. I think plasma's (especially 1080p models) will be pretty damn good for viewing. So much better than rear projection that I'd predict it will be a feature war, not specific capabilities (ie: plasmas are great in NYC where you wouldn't want to take up space on the floor for a rear-pro, and rear-projection is much better bang for the buck if you're just interested in size).
Matt @ Jan 8th 2006 2:26PM
Sorry, apparently html tags don't work in Engadget's comment lines. The IGN article is here:
http://gear.ign.com/articles/679/679235p1.html
Sy @ Jan 8th 2006 2:40PM
Assume SED will be in the high end category for several more years ...get your plasma tv Borat. By the time you get sick and tired of it, you will be in the market for a better and cheaper SED set or a Hologram projector ...whatever comes first.
Ray Morris @ Jan 8th 2006 2:40PM
SED: The ONLY way to go!
It makes sense. Those 'little lit up phosphor guys' look exactly the same from the front, side, top, bottom or any angle. The same brightness, contrast, hue, color, everything! You no way can say that for LCD, LDS, Plasma or rear projection.
Stopping in at Circuit City regularly on lunch breaks (They are connected to the building I work in) I am never impressed with any of the above mentioned TVs.
By the time SEDs start dropping in price, the HD-DVD/Blu-ray ought to have proved 'over-hyped' and the proof for even standard DVDs looking beautiful will re-imerge. Never fear, whichever HD format does take hold, I be looking forward to becoming a part of that winner even more-so on SED!
SEDs will have the latest HDMI, HDCP, tuners and anything else that is just now becoming standard. Plus they'll last longer!
Just what I've been waiting for!
martin @ Jan 8th 2006 2:51PM
They're based off CRT technology and I think they have a higher success rate in manufacturing than LCD/Plasma therefore they're easier to make and cheaper. Also they're supposidly as thin as a plasma. I was kinda hoping scan lines wouldn't be a problem anymore. I often get headaches from CRT monitors but usually a flat CRT TV doesn't give me a headache. I'm just curious to see if people who have an issue with CRTs will have an issue with these. I forget what the condition is called but CRTs give a lot of people headaches because of the scan lines. They can also strain your eyes.
jesus @ Jan 8th 2006 2:58PM
Wow amazing read for the ign thing matt. I haven't bought a flat screen ever but I was recently thinking about it. Guess I will go with SED when it comes out. I hope it will be cheaper than plasma. Imagine a 55" 720p with a 100,000:1 contrast ratio and fast response and a lot better picture quality than a plasma for a cheaper price : ) : ) : ) : )
SeNiLe @ Jan 8th 2006 3:05PM
"Xbox 360 on my SED" has a nicer sound to it!
Steven @ Jan 8th 2006 3:55PM
So SED stands for Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display. Why not just call it SCEED? Then its only one syllable! Although, SCEED sound a bit like something you don't want :P
Leo @ Jan 8th 2006 4:00PM
What about size and weight? How do these thing compare in thinness, thickness, and poundage?
+
David Hart @ Jan 8th 2006 4:04PM
Isn't the SED tech designed to create devices which are cheaper than plasma or FED? At least that is the impression I received from reading http://www.graskinhometheatre.bigstep.com/generic80.html
Here is quote from that website:
What is SED?
SED (Surface-conduction Emission Display) technology uses a great deal of FED technology with some critical changes. A thin strip of Palladium Oxide acts as an electron emitter, replacing the problematic Spindt Tips. What's more, SED displays do not require semiconductor technology, and the manufacturing of SED's does not need to be done in a vacuum or with special gases.
Because SED's draw far less power than FED's and because they do not require backlights, as LCD's do, the manufacturing costs are dramatically lower, so the price points promise to be significantly lower than current, flat-panel displays. The low power consumption equates to about 2/3 less than that of a CRT based display, and 1/3 less than a Plasma and SEDs can be fabricated in large screen sizes from at least 40" and up.
There are many industry insiders who believe that despite the strong growth of LCD and Plasma displays, SED displays are well positioned to dominate the flat panel market with much lower prices and image quality that is said (no pun intended) to rival the best CRT direct view displays.
HeistGoneWrong @ Jan 8th 2006 4:33PM
If you want to eliminate Scan Lines when taking pictures, use your camera's Shutter Priority or Manual mode and set the shutter speed to 1/30th of a second.
image1tx @ Jan 8th 2006 5:08PM
This SED TV by Canon and Toshiba has truly raised the bar. It will be lightweight and less than about 1" thick, a picture on the wall if you will. The cost will be pricey $$$ as you would expect with any new technology but don't expect it to be sold in the US any time soon unless Canon and Toshiba settle their lawsuit with a small little US company call NNPP who holds specific patents associated with this technology.
Ryan @ Jan 8th 2006 5:20PM
SED displays may be cheaper to produce than plasmas or LCDs, but that doesn't mean the displays will actually be cheaper to buy. If SED displays really are better than the rest, they'll be priced accordingly.
Chir @ Jan 8th 2006 5:27PM
A slightly unrelated question: the interior of which building is being shown in the picture displayed on the tv?
Scotty @ Jan 8th 2006 8:12PM
"the interior of which building is being shown in the picture displayed on the tv?"
Looks like the Belagio in Vegas.
joba78 @ Jan 8th 2006 8:59PM
Here's to hoping Toshiba/Canon can produce these sets in 2006 at competitive prices. I will be first in line to test one out! The following link is a good read for SED...
http://softwareforhomes.com/SED-Toshiba-Canon-HDTV-display.htm
joba78 @ Jan 8th 2006 9:17PM
Here's another link straight from Canon's website...Here's to adding Canon to your investment portfolio! Organic EL/SED will take off!
http://www.canon.com/technology/display/index.html
austinkennethlee @ Jan 8th 2006 11:03PM
Can we stop saying display after an acronym that already includes display?
EmmEff @ Jan 8th 2006 11:30PM
Since the SED screen has a phosphorus coating, does this mean it'll be subject to burn-in?
Jon @ Jan 9th 2006 12:34AM
I'm so goddamn tired of TV displays. Really, I don't care. I don't have a TV nor do I want to. I sold mine a few years ago.
The TV market is alright. There's good stuff for you guys to buy there. Be happy. Resolution (especially in respect to display size) is relatively unimportant in this market. How about showing some bloody SED computer monitors too? Please? Just one? My 19" CRT just died and there's absolutely no monitor I can buy now that is up to my quality requirements, quality requirements that weren't too outrageous a few years ago. The CRTs manufactured/for sale right now are much worse than the ones manufactured in 1999. Shitty refresh rates. I can't find ONE 19" monitor that can do 85 Hz at 1600x1200. Not ONE.
ViewSonic has one good 21", the P225f, but it's not readily available where I live, ViewSonic has had QA problems on their top-line CRTs for the past 3-4 years, and it's very expensive.
And it's all the LCD's fault. Sorry, LCDs are a few years away from being up to snuff. They have crappy black level, contrast, ghosting, and resolution. There is not one 19" TFT LCD (which is equivalent in size to a 20" CRT) that can do 1600x1200. Sorry, 1280x1024 on 19" (20" CRT equivalent) isn't fine enough for me. I ran that shit (actually, I ran 1280x960, since it's 4:3) on my budget 19" back in 1999 at 85 Hz, and even then I hated it, and became a temporary solutionI knew I had to get something better. Why can almost all 17" LCDs for sale now do 1280x1024, and not one 19" do 1600x1200? Why?
Sure, I could get a 20"-21" and run 1600x1200 (but that would defeat the purpose of that resolution, since the monitor would be larger. The larger the picture size, the higher the resolution you'll need) but they're madly expensive, and they're much much slower than 17"-19" LCDs.
It's so sad that harebrained customers who used to buy shitty CRTs (or good ones) at 60 Hz (Microsoft is to blame here to for defaulting to 60 Hz) sucked up this whole LCD fad without knowing/understanding better* ... it KILLED the market for high quality CRTs.
So, please, you display manufacturers, where are the new monitors? Will there even BE SED monitors? Who knows...
And no, I'm not going to hook up one of these new TVs to my computer, because the resolution, whilst fine for watching TV at a distance, really isn't high enough to use them as monitors.
*: But of course, the manufacturers/resellers are partially to blame for this as well, considering they don't want to have informed customers; present-day marketing is so awesome, isn't it?
Jon @ Jan 9th 2006 12:39AM
Why are linebreaks 5 lines instead of 1 on here? That really made my rant much more obnoxious than it should've been. Sorry guys, but not my fault :
who_the @ Jan 9th 2006 12:48AM
> "the interior of which building is being shown in the picture displayed on the tv?"
>
> Looks like the Belagio in Vegas.
Are you kidding? No way. Spelled wrong too.
> If you want to eliminate Scan Lines when taking pictures, use your camera's
> Shutter Priority or Manual mode and set the shutter speed to 1/30th of a
> second.
Excellent tip, though I believe the real issue may be an apparent slow refresh speeds of the SED protos.
Question for anybody that has seen these displays: Do any of the manufacturers demo any fast-action or quick camera pans? If not, it may be a sign that pixel refresh for these SEDs is not yet up to snuff. I'm suspicious, especially with the "no photos" rule. Yeah right. These things ain't ready yet. And, furthermore, if this is the best they can demo at this point, I'd be very wary of early adopting, and fearful that it may be an ongoing limitation of what otherwise is an exciting technology.
abigsmurf @ Jan 9th 2006 5:19AM
2 most important questions: what's it cost and what's it's life time?
My 28" sony triniton cost 550 and it's lasted 10 years without a single fault. I don't want to blow 1000 on a TV which will be bust with 3-4 years usage
Jeff @ Jan 9th 2006 10:53AM
It wasn't the line breaks that made your rant obnoxious.
otakucode @ Jan 9th 2006 2:34PM
Cost of manufacture is most certainly going to be irrelevant for these displays. Take a look at the technology that's been released along the past 20 years or so. Many opportunities by countless companies have been absolutely squandered. They COULD come out with some new-standard-defining technology like this at an affordable price point and entirely disrupt the market. Imagine if they came out with this TV at $500 for 55", $150 for 32" or some similar insane prices like that. People wouldn't ask you if you watched TV last night, they'd ask if you watched your Toshiba last night. There wouldn't be any debate about which TV you're going to get, it would be Toshiba or retardation. But, for reasons I can't comprehend, companies don't want this situation. They either are being run by people who aren't very smart, or they hate money. I'm not sure which it is. But anyhow, what they'll do is what they always do. They'll release this new technology which is cheaper to produce with better features, and they'll charge a mint for it. They'll do that until they've bled dry the early adopters, then they'll drop the price and bleed the next segment dry, rine, repeat. They'll get much less market penetration, make less impact on the market, and make far far less money in the long run... but hey, they went to business school, right?
Samuel Lago @ Jan 9th 2006 9:57PM
I knew SED would be worth the wait, appart from Philip's 3D HDTV in 2008 I can't see it gettin'g better than this.
Mike @ Jan 10th 2006 3:11AM
@otakucode
Supply issues would become a problem I am sure if they had it priced that low, you cant just conjure up enough tv's to fufill the demand if the price is 150 for a 32", not to mention if it costs more than that to produce it (which I am sure it would...) People have considered doing what you have said before, and there is a reason everything isn't 1 cent to boost popularity. Take an economics class sometime.
Kevin Andreassend @ Jan 11th 2006 6:13AM
Hallelujah for new display technology, but one that is creeping in downunder the radar is Digital Daytime projection screens. www.digitaldaytime.com. Just before Xmas NZ's The Press newspaper publicly declared that Digital Daytime screens gave any plasma a serious run for money, size and performance. Even Canon NZ are a reseller to match them up with Canon projectors.
trinder @ Jan 12th 2006 5:25AM
I think the price will not be under $10000.
But for this price the screen size might be either 50" or 55". (it depends on the PDP and LCD price/sizees. Off course in full HD mode.)
I love SED but the SED Tv will join the Toshiba's HD DVT products in the high priced category.
The question is about reduction of the prices. Let's hope the best, but I'm a bit hasitant.
/have you heard abaut foveon"s revolutionary digital image sensor? It was (is ?) great but that wasn"t great impact becouse off the other sensor, and camera producers market policy./
Paul @ Jan 17th 2006 8:02PM
I bought SED's little brother, an old fashioned Panasonic 26" widescreen monitor CRT at Circuit City on sale for $399. What a deal. SED is supposed to take on the plasma's & LCD's. It'll be a while, but prices will drop to $1,500 for a 50 inch unit. Toshiba did a lot of work perfecting the manufacturing process so they use less materials than the other formats. I'll enjoy my high tech bulky CRT in the interim and then move this unit to the bedroom when I can afford a big screen.